MVC going to 12 with UIC and UTA?

[BCPanther]

I understand the frustration from the non-football schools (and pretend football schools).

But the Valley is what it is because of the sum of all of it's parts, including several good basketball programs who also play scholarship football --- and football is important to those programs.

Imagine a situation where a conference wide decision would severely impact Drake's Law school, or would require the permanent cancellation of the Drake Relays. You wouldn't be okay with that, nor should you. It's part of your school's identity.

I don't think anyone is saying you need to drop football. I am suggesting that we football schools should separate from the Valley flagship and make our own league rules regarding football.

There's not enough of us, just like there aren't enough Summit League teams. We, unfortunately, need each other.

Trying to schedule 5 or 6 non-conference games would just lead to us playing each other anyway so we might as well be in the same league so that we get 5 or 6 bids every year.

Changing the name does absolutely nothing, it would still be run out of the Valley office just like the Gateway was for the last 15 years of it's existence and I'd prefer it be run out of our office rather than Sioux Falls.

[Red]

I understand the frustration from the non-football schools (and pretend football schools).

But the Valley is what it is because of the sum of all of it's parts, including several good basketball programs who also play scholarship football --- and football is important to those programs.

Imagine a situation where a conference wide decision would severely impact Drake's Law school, or would require the permanent cancellation of the Drake Relays. You wouldn't be okay with that, nor should you. It's part of your school's identity.

I don't think anyone is saying you need to drop football. I am suggesting that we football schools should separate from the Valley flagship and make our own league rules regarding football.

There's not enough of us, just like there aren't enough Summit League teams. We, unfortunately, need each other.

Trying to schedule 5 or 6 non-conference games would just lead to us playing each other anyway so we might as well be in the same league so that we get 5 or 6 bids every year.

Changing the name does absolutely nothing, it would still be run out of the Valley office just like the Gateway was for the last 15 years of it's existence and I'd prefer it be run out of our office rather than Sioux Falls.

To clarify, I am stating that the league (aka The Valley, aka MVC, aka the basketball league that supports most of the schools) would be better off if the MVFC disbanded and those schools could pick a new league where they were able to make decisions for their football programs that did not impact the all of the league. We could offer ourselves to the CAA or Ohio Valley. Dakota schools could go to the WAC or Big Sky.

I am increasingly frustrated that any decisions regarding our lifeblood sport basketball are being made by schools that play football and have different alignment of values.

[unipanther99]

This frustration (and it goes both ways) is not new. Doug and Patty were good at smoothing it all over. This is a challenge for Jeff Jackson. We will see if he can thread the needle.

[BEARZ77]

I don't even know why the Valley lets that football conference use their name. It causes dilution and confusion. Is there any good reason for it to exist? I don't want it to exist. The Valley should be a basketball and non revenue sports conference. We should not let a n FCS football conference harm the Valley, which is exactly what this is doing if it keeps Murray out.

With Murray there would be six teams with scholarship FCS football. If you want a Valley Football conference, limit it to those teams.

I think your post shows the bias that exists and why the MVC is likely to undergo more change in the next few years. Why should the Valley be a basketball and non revenue sports league, when half the league isn't that, is of course the countering argument to what you say. I'm hardly a football honk, so my point is, the league has members who become more and more different with each league change and as Universities go thru difficult enrollment and financial times. Not saying there's a right or wrong for either side or for individual Universities. But as each has to look at where there priorities lie and what they think their future can hold, the differences become more pronounced. I love the Valley and would like to see MSU stay in it, but at the same time as was pointed out in earlier threads , with the eastern bias in adding teams and the dwindling enrollments at a couple of the other state school members, who in the MVC besides Illinois St is a peer University on the same path. Adding a school like UIC does nothing for Missouri St, now or in the future, that's just a fact, but that doesn't mean it's not a good decision for the Valley. I think what individual schools need to do is ask what's best for the Valley, not their individual school, support that change, but with the understanding it might not be best for them and might usher their need to move. While obviously for MSU that involves perhaps moving for football, maybe the flip side of that is several schools moving for basketball. I think we'll see all that at least considered by MVC members in the next few years .

[BCPanther]

I don't even know why the Valley lets that football conference use their name. It causes dilution and confusion. Is there any good reason for it to exist? I don't want it to exist. The Valley should be a basketball and non revenue sports conference. We should not let a n FCS football conference harm the Valley, which is exactly what this is doing if it keeps Murray out.

With Murray there would be six teams with scholarship FCS football. If you want a Valley Football conference, limit it to those teams.

I think your post shows the bias that exists and why the MVC is likely to undergo more change in the next few years. Why should the Valley be a basketball and non revenue sports league, when half the league isn't that, is of course the countering argument to what you say. I'm hardly a football honk, so my point is, the league has members who become more and more different with each league change and as Universities go thru difficult enrollment and financial times. Not saying there's a right or wrong for either side or for individual Universities. But as each has to look at where there priorities lie and what they think their future can hold, the differences become more pronounced. I love the Valley and would like to see MSU stay in it, but at the same time as was pointed out in earlier threads , with the eastern bias in adding teams and the dwindling enrollments at a couple of the other state school members, who in the MVC besides Illinois St is a peer University on the same path. Adding a school like UIC does nothing for Missouri St, now or in the future, that's just a fact, but that doesn't mean it's not a good decision for the Valley. I think what individual schools need to do is ask what's best for the Valley, not their individual school, support that change, but with the understanding it might not be best for them and might usher their need to move. While obviously for MSU that involves perhaps moving for football, maybe the flip side of that is several schools moving for basketball. I think we'll see all that at least considered by MVC members in the next few years .

This is a really good point. The core of this league has been together for 30 years now and that's forever outside of the P6.

[BEARZ77]

Yeah, I 'm not belittling someone when I ask , is a conference with half the schools being State Universities who value football the best fit for some of the membership; because it's no different than the question of is a conference with an emphasis on private schools east of the MIssissippi who value only basketball the best fit for MSU. Depending on how the Valley chooses it's course, these are questions a number of members will need to sort out , and will likely foster added movement.

[TBS_20]

Yeah, I 'm not belittling someone when I ask , is a conference with half the schools being State Universities who value football the best fit for some of the membership; because it's no different than the question of is a conference with an emphasis on private schools east of the MIssissippi who value only basketball the best fit for MSU. Depending on how the Valley chooses it's course, these are questions a number of members will need to sort out , and will likely foster added movement.

I believe the answer is no for ISU because they're letting private universities truly make the decisions. The privates make all the decision regarding sports. But, they don't have the same goals. It doesn't make sense. ISUr's only was forward is by getting into the FBS. If they stay in the MVC I think they become a second rate university and their enrollment will decline.

On another note, who is gone in our minds? I think we can all agree Missouri State leaving eventually is going to happens. Anyone else feel immanent?

[unipanther99]

You don't really look to leave a conference. You look for a better opportunity. For UNI, it's difficult to come up with a move up that doesn't involve going FBS, and I don't think that's really likely unless we can find some way to do it as a group with MSU, Illinois State, SIU, etc. Hard to envision a scenario that plays out that way right now, but the landscape is always changing.

[Red]

On another note, who is gone in our minds? I think we can all agree Missouri State leaving eventually is going to happens. Anyone else feel immanent?

No one imminent and I don't think anyone is calling for our members. However, if Bradley could become relevant again, it's not impossible that they could be a A-10 target. That'd be my best bet. Or Belmont and they haven't even joined yet.

[Drakey]

The Valley always has been a basketball conference. Football has never been anything of great significance. At one time the Valley was considered the best basketball conference in the country. I don't see why FCS or non-scholarship football should interfere with that. I get why that was an issue in the old Big East, because there were schools playing high level FBS football. That is not the case here. The highest level football in the MVFC is at a school that is not even a member of the Valley. Is there some great payout for being in the FCS playoffs? If the sport is so lucrative why can't the schools afford to fly to South Dakota? Drake flies from California to Florida to play football.

Football should not be a consideration in choosing members. If a guaranteed money losing sport is that important I would agree that maybe those teams should look elsewhere and leave the schools that are primarily interested in a basketball conference.

The Atlantic Ten seems to have figured this out. they have seven schools that field football teams all of whom play elsewhere. We just lost our top basketball program to them.