Welcome Murray State to the MVC!

[VUGrad1314]

That's true. And if I remember correctly from the D1360 video their enrollment has really bucked the trend over the past ten years and is booming just like Belmont's. That probably says a lot about their financial health meaning they should have some money to invest if gaining MVC membership gives them an impetus to do so. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Loyola level results from them but if they could even turn into a Missouri State level program that hangs around the top 100 that would be good enough to give everyone a Q2 road game which would help a lot if Murray State and Belmont are as good as advertised. I think that could be a reasonable objective for them to reach and that would make us all very happy. The more I think about it the more I'm slowly coming around on them. I was just freaked out we were going to pass on Murray State to take a risk on a bunch of market schools which would have been a horrible decision. With Murray State now on board I'm much more inclined than I was to roll the dice on a market school especially one that checks as many boxes as UIC does. If they can get their act together in basketball they will be a homerun add for the MVC.

I've already mentioned in another post that just because you commit to finances doesn't automatically translate into wins. Sure it gives you the opportunity to hire a "higher class" of coach. The key there is an AD that can do that. This may be a bit long, but here goes.

2004 was the last time we went to the Dance. After this the program began to slowly devolve and the culture began to change for the worst. Jimmy Collins had lost the team, but the former AD's (Jim Schmidt) hands were tied and he "couldn't" fire Collins. There were "connections" within the University that prevented that. So Collins was allowed to retire on his own. When he did retire, he did it too late that it hamstrung the incoming Coach...Howard Moore. He was a good man hired by Schmidt, but spent most of his tenure trying to get the program back to the "ground floor" from the deep basement Collins left it. Enter a new AD (Garret Klassy) who let Moore go and then hired Steve McClain. Optimism was high as McClain came in from Wyoming with a winning record, excited and recruiting like crazy! He had a number of 3-star players! His problem, as we later found, was that time had passed him by and he could no longer coach...especially today's players. During this period (Moore/McClain), the MVC came a calling. We committed to the requests asked of us, and while individuals make fun of the department's "leaking" that "UIC was a done deal", that was the case. Since President Smart and the committee were in town, They decided to go to the Northside and visit Loyola. After a last minute commitment by Loyola, which was a private, the rest was history. We now have a new AD, Mike Lipitz, who has made good hires, including our men's basketball coach, Luke Yaklich. Being an evaluator of talent is an important quality in an AD. Even with an influx of financial commitment, you still have to make the right hire. We appear to have that in Mike Lipitz that we didn't have in Jim Schmidt nor Garrett Klassy.

Yaklich' first year was marred by a mismatch of players that were never recruited live, intertwined with Covid and injuries. Although he signed a bunch of 3-stars and a 4-star, after starting 5-2, the aforementioned conditions came into play. Coach Yak seems to be the right coach and I will give him his contract to see the progress or lack thereof.

I realize men's hoops drive this conference, but our overall athleic department is second to none. Our Volleyball team just won the HL Championship. Our Men's soccer team has won the HL Tourney 3 of the last 5 years including 3 in a row. Baseball finishes 1 or 2 with a rare 3rd place finish every year. Softball and Women's Tennis are perennial top finishers. The Flames will be ready, if we are offered an invite, on day one to compete for respect, if not championships.

All we ask for is a chance. The Valley gave Loyola a chance, it worked out. The Valley gave Valpo a chance, that one didn't! That last one was obviously a dig at VUGrad1314 who seemingly doesn't pass up a chance to rip, dismiss or disrespect UIC. I've read the majority of his posts, but practiced what my mother taught me..., "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything". This time I couldn't help it. Could've said more about that situation, but not necessary.

Thank you for this writeup. I knew UIC's overall department had some solid selling points outside of men's basketball but I didn't know it was this good. That's very comforting. If you're looking for me to be offended by what you said about Valpo I'm not. Valpo deserves all the scorn and mud you can throw at it for its performance since the MVC invite and I have thrown plenty of mud myself. You will not find me mounting a defense of the program under Coach Lottich at all. I have been hard on UIC because I have a myopic focus on men's basketball as that is the revenue sport for the MVC and I have also said repeatedly that maybe it shouldn't be me making these arguments because of how bad Valpo has sucked in the MVC.

That said, nothing I say is meant to be a personal attack (although I get that when someone comes for the school that you support and\or attended it can feel like a personal attack especially when the criticism seems overly harsh and harping on one weak point in an otherwise very solid resume. I admit my ignorance on UIC's overall candidacy that you have set me straight on and that is on me for not researching deeply enough. One thing you should know about me if you don't already is that I love this conference as much as I love my school so everything I say comes from a place of passion and love for this conference and wanting it to be strong. As you know, the fight for at large bids for conferences like ours isn't easy and all I want is to see this conference continue to be able to fight for them even as the odds continue to get longer. That's why Valpo's performance pains me so much and why I'm not upset that you said what you said. UIC's men's basketball program is really my only complaint about UIC. I've said at least once if not twice before that they check basically every other box and could be a great add. If they had a top 100 basketball program I would be pounding the table for their inclusion and if programs like Murray State and South Dakota State weren't as good as they are I wouldn't even give them a second thought for MVC membership.

I can promise you this (not that it means or should mean anything to you as I'm just some idiot posting on an internet message board instead of living\enjoying my life like a normal person should be doing): If UIC joins the MVC they will have my support as they will be a member institution of my school's conference that also happens to be my favorite conference in college basketball. I will hope that they make me look like the biggest moron on this board (moreso than I already achieve that title myself with some of my rantings). It sounds like in every sport except men's basketball UIC will raise the overall profile of the Valley and that is a very good thing. If we're intent on going to 12 (and we are) then there are far worse athletic departments we could be giving a chance to. If UIC gets an invite I hope that in five years you (or I as I am often one to point out where I was wrong and where my takes did not age well) will be able to pull out some of my posts in this thread where I was unnecessarily harsh towards UIC's membership candidacy and have a good laugh at how stupid they are. You seem like a good dude so I will look forward to talking MVC basketball with you if UIC gets an invite and I will join the group of posters welcoming you your fellow Flames fans and your institution and programs into the MVC. On that you have my word. Good luck!

[Chuck A]

Appreciate the reply VUGrad! Looking forward to joining the MVC. Hope it happens.

[Blers42]

Loyola was only around for 8 years and 5 of those were pretty damn mediocre. I'm nowhere near sold that they're some national power that we don't have any hope of replacing or improving upon nor am I sold that the A10 is head and shoulders above the Valley.

I'd argue that the Valley will be a better league on 7/1/22 than it was on 7/1/21.

I view this Loyola stretch, with the Final Four as a centerpiece, more like the stretch George Mason had in the mid-2000's. VCU has been able to have more sustained success, as has Wichita State. Wichita State does appear to be heading toward a complete implosion sooner rather than later though.

It’s hard to compare it when it hasn’t ended yet, and at this point Loyola’s stretch is already more impressive. It’s likely that next season they’ll drop-off a bit with the increased competition and loss of seniors.

[BCPanther]

Loyola was only around for 8 years and 5 of those were pretty damn mediocre. I'm nowhere near sold that they're some national power that we don't have any hope of replacing or improving upon nor am I sold that the A10 is head and shoulders above the Valley.

I'd argue that the Valley will be a better league on 7/1/22 than it was on 7/1/21.

I view this Loyola stretch, with the Final Four as a centerpiece, more like the stretch George Mason had in the mid-2000's. VCU has been able to have more sustained success, as has Wichita State. Wichita State does appear to be heading toward a complete implosion sooner rather than later though.

It’s hard to compare it when it hasn’t ended yet, and at this point Loyola’s stretch is already more impressive. It’s likely that next season they’ll drop-off a bit with the increased competition and loss of seniors.

The top of the A10 is historically better but the bottom is historically way worse.

[VUGrad1314]

I view this Loyola stretch, with the Final Four as a centerpiece, more like the stretch George Mason had in the mid-2000's. VCU has been able to have more sustained success, as has Wichita State. Wichita State does appear to be heading toward a complete implosion sooner rather than later though.

It’s hard to compare it when it hasn’t ended yet, and at this point Loyola’s stretch is already more impressive. It’s likely that next season they’ll drop-off a bit with the increased competition and loss of seniors.

The top of the A10 is historically better but the bottom is historically way worse.

Fortunately for them, their ability to compete against the top of that conference will count a great deal toward determining their success in their quest for tournament bids. I get the sense that if they can build a team as good as this current one is they will compete just fine. I do think a dropoff is coming for them but I'm not sure exactly how severe it will be. I think the A-10 will definitely be an adjustment to them but if Porter Moser really did fundamentally change the program and build something with staying power as I suspect he did then Loyola will eventually be just fine in their new home as we in the MVC hopefully will be with our new additions.

[Blers42]

I’m optimistic that the drop-off for Loyola will not be that severe, we’re bringing back Kennedy, Norris, Hutson, Welch, Saint Thomas etc. and what Porter created fundamentally is still there. Drew built on top of that “culture” and respects it, plus I think our level of recruiting is only going to get better and it’s already the best it’s ever been. I think we’re in good hands, the school has been taking all the necessary steps to continually invest in the future of Loyola basketball.

This was about as smooth of a transition that could be asked for, the MVC recovered well. I look forward to any future non-conf matchups with any MVC opponents. Lastly somehow I never mentioned this, welcome Murray State.

[VUGrad1314]

I’m optimistic that the drop-off for Loyola will not be that severe, we’re bringing back Kennedy, Norris, Hutson, Welch, Saint Thomas etc. and what Porter created fundamentally is still there. Drew built on top of that “culture” and respects it, plus I think our level of recruiting is only going to get better and it’s already the best it’s ever been. I think we’re in good hands, the school has been taking all the necessary steps to continually invest in the future of Loyola basketball.

This was about as smooth of a transition that could be asked for, the MVC recovered well. I look forward to any future non-conf matchups with any MVC opponents. Lastly somehow I never mentioned this, welcome Murray State.

It's rare to see a realignment scenario where literally everyone ends up winning but the MVC seems to be able to pull it off. (And of course getting into the A-10 is a huge win for Loyola but that goes without saying).

This conference found a way to survive when Creighton left.

Thanks to Loyola and Drake this conference found a way to survive when Wichita State left.

Hopefully we will find a way to survive even after Loyola leaves. So far the MVC has done everything right in this regard. I'm optimistic about the league's future. Valley teams find a way and that's one of the things I love the most about this conference. Loyola will be missed but now that the initial shock has worn off and I see the additions we have made so far I think we're going to be okay. Maybe better Maybe not but certainly not any worse and that's a wonderful thing to be able to say. Not many conferences are able to recover this well and we are fortunate in that regard. If UIC gets in I hope they become a home run as well. Chuck_A's response to me has me much more optimistic about them than I was. Even if they don't contribute right away in men's basketball they will make the overall athletic profile of the Valley deeper and better enhance the conference's reputation academically and keep us in Chicago which is important to so many MVC schools. All of that alone is worth a lot. if they can become even a Q2 road game for us the add will be absolutely perfect.

[BCPanther]

Dude.

The Valley has remade itself over and over and over for 114 years. There's no 'hopefully we survive Loyola leaving'. They were here for all of 8 years. We've lost a dozen programs over the years that were head and shoulders above where Loyola is today and we're still one of the best leagues in the country outside the P6.

I'll reiterate that we're going to be a better league on 7/1/22 than we were on 7/1/21.

[E-Villan]

Dude.

The Valley has remade itself over and over and over for 114 years. There's no 'hopefully we survive Loyola leaving'. They were here for all of 8 years. We've lost a dozen programs over the years that were head and shoulders above where Loyola is today and we're still one of the best leagues in the country outside the P6.

I'll reiterate that we're going to be a better league on 7/1/22 than we were on 7/1/21.

This. I don't say this to be mean, but honestly, I usually skim past Valpo's post because of all of the sheer panic in his posts about the MVC. It's as if we are one bad loss away from completely collapsing. It's exhausting to see it over and over. Yes, the MVC will survive as it always has, hell, even the OVC will survive in some form.

No offense to Loyola, but I agree and have said it before. We are definitely better next July than the last one. Top to bottom I like our league better than just about every non P6. It's time we worry and focus on our current membership than constantly fret about who is going to come and save us. Belmont and Murray need to come in and maintain their swagger. Drake needs to keep their momentum after the long slumber. UNI needs to stay competitive post AJ Green. We need Bradley and Illinois State back to their bloodbath rivalry. My Aces need to address the leadership of our men's program, and find a way to win some games and start filling the Ford Center again, and Valpo needs to find a way to fund some much needed facility improvements.

That is how we keep the MVC going forward, not setting around, drawing up one fantasy add after another.

[Blers42]

Dude.

The Valley has remade itself over and over and over for 114 years. There's no 'hopefully we survive Loyola leaving'. They were here for all of 8 years. We've lost a dozen programs over the years that were head and shoulders above where Loyola is today and we're still one of the best leagues in the country outside the P6.

I'll reiterate that we're going to be a better league on 7/1/22 than we were on 7/1/21.

This. I don't say this to be mean, but honestly, I usually skim past Valpo's post because of all of the sheer panic in his posts about the MVC. It's as if we are one bad loss away from completely collapsing. It's exhausting to see it over and over. Yes, the MVC will survive as it always has, hell, even the OVC will survive in some form.

No offense to Loyola, but I agree and have said it before. We are definitely better next July than the last one. Top to bottom I like our league better than just about every non P6. It's time we worry and focus on our current membership than constantly fret about who is going to come and save us. Belmont and Murray need to come in and maintain their swagger. Drake needs to keep their momentum after the long slumber. UNI needs to stay competitive post AJ Green. We need Bradley and Illinois State back to their bloodbath rivalry. My Aces need to address the leadership of our men's program, and find a way to win some games and start filling the Ford Center again, and Valpo needs to find a way to fund some much needed facility improvements.

That is how we keep the MVC going forward, not setting around, drawing up one fantasy add after another.

No offense to the entire MVC but being better than this season next year shouldn’t be that hard, outside of Loyola the league underperformed in the non conference. Teams are starting to figure things out but at this point it’s just going to be the same old Valley that beats it’s own teams up during conference play. The only hope of a multi-bid league is if Loyola only drops 3-4 games and loses at Arch Madness.

I agree though the Valley is clearly going to be fine and there’s absolutely nothing to be worried about. Two strong mid majors are replacing one strong mid major, sounds like a positive for the Valley.